BlazBlue/Headscratchers

Everything About Fiction You Never Wanted to Know.


  • If Continuum Shift is based off the True ending of Calamity Trigger, then how does Taokaka know Ragna as the 'Good Guy'? There wasn't any scene in the true ending showing that they met each other, so how can they already know each other?
    • For the same reason Carl and Tao are taken under Bang's wing despite not happening in their True endings.
      • That still doesn't explain how Ragna and Tao know each other.
    • Ok, think of it like this; some scenes that weren't shown in the True ending are canon while others are not.
      • Everything in Calamity Trigger's story happened in time loops, and the True End is the version that managed to escape the time loop and reach Continuum Shift's story line. This is especially clear in the Continuum Shift stories for Litchi and Carl, both lead on from one of their Calamity Trigger endings but reference a second.
  • Why do people keep comparing Noel with Millia? All they have in similarity are their color schemes and blonde hair. Dizzy has more similarities with her, yet the one she's compared with is Nu (who'd have closer similarities with Justice).
  • Why is Kokonoe being a Catgirl considered a spoiler when the game makes absolutely no attempt to hide it??
    • Leftovers from between original's arcade release and the console version, where Kokonoe's origins were a legitimate surprise.
  • Ragna's multiple endings in Story mode. The other characters are justified when they go through different paths because in the end, Ragna fuses with Nu and becomes the Black Beast and starts the whole thing all over again. If Ragna is the cause of the whole timeloop to even happen, then how is it he can go through different endings? That should be a foil to Hazama's plans or against Rachel's expectations, right?
    • Ragna isn't the cause of the time loop, nor is he the reason why the Black Beast exists in the past. The Black Beast was created once by Hazama in the past as his first attempt to create Kusanagi. The Black Beast can be created a second time in the BlazBlue story when the two halves of the fake Azure Grimoire (held by Ragna and v-13) fuse and activate. The source of the time distortion is v-13: only when she is destroyed does the time loop finally shatter.
      • Do you have a source for that? Because AFAIK the timeloop IS dependent on both Nu and Ragna which is backed up by the Material Collection. The only thing I've found to back you up is speculation by Suzaku of the Dustloop forums here [1] [dead link] who is currently translating the Material Collection book and that's only about the original timeline.
      • The timeloop is definitely dependent on Ragna and a Murakumo Unit, usually Nu but sometimes Mu. In some loops, Nu is destroyed by Mu, who then takes her place (and presumably her Azure) and fuses with Ragna. See one of Ragna's alternate paths, and when Nu loses to Noel in her Story Mode. I got the feeling that what breaks the loop isn't necessarily Nu's death, it's Noel breaking free from her fate and her programming to save Ragna from falling into the Cauldron.
      • I was under the impression that the big satellite with the skeleton/demon thing was causing the timeloop.
    • Oh, I see. But that raises one more question. If Hazama created the first one, then does the second one 'replace' it throughout the rest of the time distortion or something? Sorry, I'm kind of confused by all these details that have to be put together.
  • How is July 20 a Stealth Pun?
    • 7/20. As in, the 720 degree motion required for Iron Tager's Genesic Emerald Tager Buster distortion drive. REAL SOVIET RELEASE DATE!
      • Pity it got delayed 'till Fall.
        • It didn't. That was confirmed as a typo.
          • Looks like it might actually be delayed a week. Some sites have it listed for 7/27.
  • Wait...just how old is Nirvana, anyway? And is Carl really the only one who knows its secret?
    • Carl's father, Relius Clover, probably knows of it's secret. On a related note, where did Carl get glasses that let him talk to machines?
    • Nirvana is around 100 years old. Nine created it during the First War of Magic as one of the original nine Nox Nytores by transmuting thousands of human souls into each one. Ada was only put in it very recently.
      • Which makes Relius even more of a complete monster, since he had pretty much no reason to do this other than curiosity.
    • Hakumen also knows its secret, and possibly the other living Heroes and maybe Kokonoe. It's just no one is talking about what that secret is.
  • Where did Ragna get his "Bloodedge" title?
    • We don't know. Personally, I think he got it from the Blood-scythe, or the blood gleaming off his sword as seen by the survivors of the Library branches he destroyed, but for all we know Ragna is crap at making up titles and picked one off the top of his head, 'cause seriously, what kind of name is Bloodedge?
    • What Do You Mean It's Not Awesome??
    • It's revealed in CS' Story Mode that Bloodedge was the name of a friend of Jubei's who fought alongside the Six Heroes and who was the previous owner of the Blood-Scythe and Ragna's jacket. Rachel calls him Ragna the Bloodedge after he receives them.
      • This is yet another shining example of what timeloops do. Ragna is inheriting his own title, jacket, and weapon because as the prequel novel will tell you, Bloodedge is none other than Ragna. He just has amnesia after being thrown into the past and having his copy of the Azure absorbed by Nu who become the Black Beast. So not only is Ragna essentially having his jacket and weapon returned to a younger version of himself (given to him by Jubei, who could do nothing but watch him die), it was Ragna himself that fought back the Black Beast for an entire year alone. And to top it all off, Jubei states in Continuum Shift that Ragna/Bloodedge could have fought even longer had he not sacrificed himself to save someone.
      • Now that you've read the above spoiler. Consider this for a moment. Who mentored who first? Did Ragna teach Jubei first or did Jubei teach Ragna who was later thrown back in time to teach Jubei what he would later re-teach a young Ragna? Does your brain hurt yet?
        • Here's another mind screw for you, continuing from what the previous troper stated, considering the time loop, who created the Bloodedge sword/scythe/thing? How did it come into existence if the previous owner was an amnesic Ragna who inherited it from himself, thus, later on, passing it on to himself without giving us a clear understanding of just how it came into the picture.
  • Where is Hazama/Terumi's Azure Grimoire located? Ragna's is on the back of his hand and Nu's was on her face. I guess the only logical thing to assume is it's somewhere under his clothing (chest, maybe? I mean Hazama was never human in the first place, apparently he was created by Relius for Terumi along with Nu and the other Mura-something units, or so I heard, so don't hold it against me if that's wrong, so it's possible that during the creation Terumi requested for it to be placed on his body), but then again, from some of the animated sequences, we see that Ragna's Azure opens up and releases... stuff, in his sprites, when activating Blood Kain, though from what I've seen from Hazama's sprites, and from the recordings on YouTube of Ragna VS Hazama in Arcade Mode on Continuum Shift, all his seems to do is make the ground shake. Also, where the hell did Ragna get his Azure, anyway? At the end of the CS Ragna Arcade Mode, Terumi says he created the Azures so... how the hell did Ragna get hold of it?
    • The origins of Ragna's obtainment of his fake Azure will most likely be expanded upon in Continuum Shift's console story mode. It is wise to assume that Hazama's Azure is hidden underneath his clothing. And perhaps Terumi "allowed" Ragna to obtain an Azure to become the Black Beast, thus effectively allowing Terumi to perform a trial and error of sorts, eventually leading him to create Kusanagi.
    • Ragna's Azure is actually the body of the Black Beast which was hidden under the church he was raised in and is now his right arm. Terumi made the Black Beast which was split into two halves of the fake Azure, Ragna's which is the body and Nu's which is the heart. As for how he got the Azure, when Rachel saves, him he crawls (bleeding and with only one eye open) to where the Black Beast's remains were sealed, broke the seal and the remains became his right arm and fake Azure.
  • Why is it suddenly a spoiler that Jin is Ragna's brother? It's casually mentioned not even ten minutes into Ragna's story mode scenario, people! The only reason I can think of is that the sudden influx of spoiler tags were added by arcade purists who wouldn't touch the console version with a 10-foot pole.
    • Which is also weird, because it is stated in the arcade version as well. Jin's story mode, anyone?
  • Okay, this has always confused me. Does the list of the Six Heroes count Terumi? I mean, was his expulsion from the Susanoo Unit before or after the whole Black Beast fiasco? Is it that he was replaced with Jin in all subsequent timelines after the first, or does he get to go back in time and play Sixth Ranger?
    • He ejected from Susanooh prior to the Blask Beast's attack, and fought as one of the six heroes in his ghost form.
  • Why the hell did Ark Sys have to replace easy specials with beginner mode? One of these helped veterans practice their timing without having to perfect inputs as well. One of these does not.
  • Who, exactly, are the Takamagahara? And, just as importantly, how is Terumi connected to them?
    • Takamagahara is, insofar as I understand it, a sentient computer system that's meant to moderate the world or history or some such. By the start of CS, it would seem they had decided that humanity screwed everything up and should be destroyed along with everything else. Or to just stop the freaky time loops that were apparently in the care of Master Unit Amaterasu. Not entirely clear. Anyway, they let Terumi out to do his thing. That's my understanding of it. A lot of the bits with Takamagahara involved the nature of reality and causality in the BlazBlue universe, so it got fairly confusing on its own.
    • The only things we know are that they are a system made by mankind, they monitor the timelines, they're trying to make the world "correct" and are attempting to reach the Azure for that purpose. They released Terumi to carry out the "Destruction protocol" to get the Master Unit out of the way. They pretty much explicitly say they don't want to kill everything like Terumi does when Rachel suggests they want to reduce the world to nothingness. More information about them will be revealed in the BlazBlue: Phase 0 light novel.
      • Thank you for making that bit less confusing, I wasn't entirely sure what I was getting at myself.
  • I really can't figure out how Arakune works. Why do bugs follow him? The only bug that he actively house in his body is the fat spit bug from down D, and, when cursed, other bugs fly in from off screen. This would mean that the bugs follow him, but for what reason? Arakune himself devours creatures completely, so there is no scavenging to be had for the bugs and in the story he never scouts or uses the bugs in any meaningful manner so we can probably rule out mind control. And why do these "bugs" look so weird?
    • You know how he has a large pile of books in one of his pre-battle poses? It has been stated in the Material Collection that those books are all grimoires which house the bugs that he unleashes.
  • Okay, this just bugged me, but what would be Litchi's alignment ultimately? Neutral Good? Chaotic Good? True Neutral? Neutral Good seems to stem from how she likes helping people and is, deep down, a kind person. However, since she joined NOL, it dashes away her Neutral Good tendencies since it's an EVIL organization, but she pretty much doesn't care, as long as she can save Arakune, which NOL has. However, judging from how many people compares this with the Nasuverse, I get the feeling that Litchi might be Chaotic Good instead, since her decision with Arakune is similar with the decision that Shirou made in Heaven's Feel scenario: let the world be endangered just so long as he can save his love (Sakura). Well, which will it be?
    • I would say that she's initially Neutral Good, and, as you say, her decision to save Arakune goes into Chaotic Good territory. However, I personally believe that she might end up as Chaotic Neutral if she keeps up her current attitude. It occurred to me that maybe the reason for her Face Heel Turn is Fridge Brilliance, since the Boundary's power erodes minds which would mean that she's losing her common sense, since it's a mental faculty.
    • Wait, wait. The current Litchi that joined NOL is Chaotic Good... or Chaotic Neutral? Or were you referring the Chaotic Neutral Litchi as her when the corruption reached its peak (AKA, her becoming something similar to Arakune)?
      • I believe that the above troper was trying to say that Litchi was initially Neutral Good, currently Chaotic Good and might end up being Chaotic Neutral if this trend continues.
    • Need I remind you that the NOL is not inherently evil? Yes, they're controversial, and yes, their leaders are questionable at best, but they're essentially a government slash military slash police force slash university. To call them inherently evil is WAY overgeneralizing. Going with the NOL does not make her evil -- she's doing it to try and save somebody she loves, and while this will probably put her on the evil side of some fights in BlazBlue 3, it doesn't change her whole character alignment.
    • Everyone else in this site has been treating her like no longer good. Hell, have you seen how the articles in other characters NEVER let it be passed that she betrayed those who has trusted her (Bang, Carl, Tao, Linhua)? Of course I do agree that she's not Evil, but still, I am still confused on how you think that her alignment were still Good, not degraded into Neutral (I'm personally hoping you'll state why it's still Good and not Neutral, though). The accusations of her no longer Good weren't solely because of just joining NOL, but because she looked like not being there against her will but more like giving in to her selfish desires on doing it, if you just look at the surface.
  • What in the world are 'Drives'? Ragna's 'Soul Eater' is mentioned in his CS story when fighting Terumi, but these Drives are never really brought up in anyone else's story. So, what exactly are they?
    • The 'D' button. It's generally an ars magus/Nox nyctores. Lambda's is the Idea Engine, a mechanical ars. Tager's is probably just advanced tech. Rachel's is sorcery.
    • Okay, so Ragna's would simply be his Azure Grimoire, right? It's not some other form of Armagus he uses? In Calamity Trigger's story mode, Ragna can cast Ars to camouflage himself and 'unlock doors'. Is it possible for Ragna to use any form of Ars if he took the time to learn them? Is it possible for anyone else to learn ars using their Drives?
    • Well, Ragna's is freaking powerful. Unlock could also mean that he just shattered the protection magic with overwhelming force. In theory, anyone can use basic ars magus. Most characters in the game, however, are powered by a nox, giving them unique powers. The Teach Me Ms Litchi section does mention that vigilantes are issued a capture ars, meaning that almost any Joe Schmoe can use it if given proper clearance. Also, people have different aptitudes for ars, as mentioned by Hazama, some got it and some didn't, and the Teach Me Mrs Litchi section mentioned different usage and efficiency. Bang is the only one in the cast that can't use ars.
      • About your first point, yeah, it is said in the very beginning of CT's story that "... Okay. Unlocking isn't really the word." or something like this.
      • Also Drives are generally more of a gameplay mechanic than a story thing. Bang's Furinkazan isn't too important in the story, except for his ending in CS. I haven't done Makoto's story yet, but I don't think her charging up attacks makes a big difference either. Its just an easy to understand gameplay mechanic.
  • Uh... how did Bang decided to go to Ikaruga at the end? Nobody told him that Ikaruga is in danger, or that NOL is heading for Ikaruga, or that Lord Tenjou's son is located at Ikaruga. So who told him that there'll be something big in Ikaruga so he has to head there to protect it?
    • Trinity did mention something to Bang about Ikaruga and his Nox Nyctores.
  • "I believe he calls himself 'Arakune' now." When did he ever call himself this? When her memories of Lotte are erased in a Bad End, Litchi remembers Arakune as "that thing which attacks the Kaka Village". But they don't call him "Arakune", they call him "Squiggly".
    • It's probably just a nickname derived from infamy. Arakune has been reported to hang around Orient town as well as the Kaka village. The wanted posters must kinda look lame when it says "Squiggly."
  • You know, I was wondering why Kokonoe and Tager are perfectly civil with Litchi joining NOL and instead goes on the route of Angst? What Angst?. Especially Kokonoe, with all her personality quirks, her reaction would be more like extremely pissed off and may probably plan to kill Litchi or something.
    • To be fair we don't see any of the sector 7 members talk to Litchi after the joining, so it's unfair to assume that we know how they feel. Kokonoe is also shown to be a Tsundere, allowing Tager to kick Litchi's ass, but was also nice enough to prevent Sector 7 from recapturing her as Tager pointed out. I guess Litchi's actions in the sequel will really determine what happens.
    • If Kokonoe could see what Ragna sees after he absorbed the Idea Engine, she should've noticed. Unless Kokonoe has a plan behind this all, I really find it jarring that she'll just stay silent. After all, judging from the situation, either Litchi would be pissed off enough at Sector Seven for ignoring her pleas that she decides to leak their information to NOL, or NOL forces her to do it against her will. Either way, unlike last time when Litchi's search for Arakune is still considered harmless for Kokonoe, there would be a danger present to Kokonoe...then she just... laughs in the face of danger?
  • I'm confused about the continuum shift. Everyone makes it seem like it's first time something like that happened, but several story lines including Hakumen's, and Litchi's suggest that those events happened before, even though they are all experiencing a continuum shift. It even suggests that the timeline is still capable of looping such as Bang's bad ending. This is also the whole reason why the NOL wanted the Master Unit destroyed. Is the continuum shift something that happens periodically and the story paths follow the same vein as Calamity Trigger's where the Bad Endings are alternate timelines?
    • Continuum shift meant that nothing was going to repeat exactly any more. While it's not the first time it happened, it is still a cautious moment where history lacks certainty. Rachael warns that anything can happen. However, Takamagahara can and will reset if the scenario does not meet their satisfaction. All the alternative scenarios are what would happen when the probabilities go certain directions. The true end happened because Terumi saw all the possibilities and made his move for the best outcome. Time will no longer reset
    • It seemed more like the continuum shift consisted of a single block of time with all of the plotlines happening at once, in parallel in some sort of Schroedinger's Box arrangement so that Takamagahara could choose its (their?) preferred outcome to observe and make real (yay for the Quantum Wantum Ball). Terumi managed to somehow weasel his consciousness back and forth from different points in the could-have-beens to find HIS ideal outcome instead. And holy CRAP it took a long time!
  • So Jin is listed to be born in England... what kind of British parent named their children with such a Japanese-sounding name like 'Jin'? Or was 'Jin' just a name made up by Caelica?
    • Being born born in England doesn't mean he had to have British parents. Especially when it's hinted that all three siblings were artificially created.
  • This one thing bugged me. Litchi's decision to keep clinging on Arakune can be said to be irrational to the point of joining NOL. However, if she decided to not save Arakune and just kill him already, she is slapped with a Bad End...and in the "Help Me! Prof. Kokonoe!" section, Robo-Kokonoe told her to think calmly and carefully...the result of which is still clinging to Arakune and joining NOL. The hell is this Fridge Logic? Which one is supposed to be rational and why?
    • I believe the "Good Ending" has less to do with actually being good, and more being the ending that's actually canon.
    • No, no, it wasn't about good or bad, canon or non-canon, but rational thinking. How did it go that rationally thinking means joining NOL? That was supposed to be the 'rational thinking'? I just find it impossible to find any rationality in that decision. Care to explain why?
      • The reason it is 'rational thinking' is because she is explicity stated to be dying and turning into something like Arakune and the NOL is the group that offered to give here the resources and more importantly (to her at least) heal Arakune. While Sector Seven could probably prevent any further damage to her, magic would make it much easier to heal her wounds, espcially considering they have skill with boundary related problems. Also, the NOL is not an entirely evil organization, and Hazama/Terumi obviously tricked her into it, tempting and manipulating her even having Relius capture Arakune. For her at least, its more of a "I did what I had to do" than a selfish evil act.
      • So... risking to destroy Carl's newfound trust on adults is something rational? As well as joining the very organization that her apprentice Linhua clearly hates (she went aggressive even on Noel who was just being treated by Litchi)? Admittedly this is used to many haters to say about her drop in morality... citing that her complete ignorance to those she betrayed by going into NOL was looking like 'The only one she considers friends is Lotte only'. So was 'betraying' Carl, Linhua, Bang and any of her friends who aren't with NOL and not named Arakune... rational as well? And... why (whether it's rational or irrational)?
        • In this sense, thinking rationally more likely means thinking past simply killing Arakune. As seen in CT where she kills him, she realises that she did not want to kill him. Irrationality in the Help Me segment can be seen as saying in CT 'Lotte's still in there somewhere so I can still save him' and then suddenly saying in CS 'He's still there but he wants to die so I'll kill him'. It shows that she's completely disregarding anything she thought of from CT, effectively rendering it all moot. Take this with a grain of salt.
        • Perhaps, yes. But if we go by that line of thinking, it will end her in ignoring a million-of-a-chance of Arakune going sane and doing his damndest to show how much he cares, and then leaving behind and possibly betraying her other friends like Bang, Tao, Carl, and especially her NOL-hating apprentice Linhua by joining NOL. Perhaps the CT thinking and sticking with it could be rational, but does the actions that follow also end up being rational? Was sticking to be a moral character, staying with friends and never betraying them considered irrational here?
          • The Help Me segment telling her to think rationally is more for the player to choose the right path. The segment is meant to direct the player towards the choice that leads to the canon ending, not to direct the character (since they lose all memory of the segment after leaving). This is largely seen by the fact that Litchi has two decisions to make: the first being the one that the player can choose an outcome for and the second being her joining the NOL that the player cannot influence. Thinking rationally only applies to the player making their way to the true end, otherwise, most likely, options would have been placed after the first decision directing her to do what the player wanted her to do from there. Nowhere in any of the segments does Kokonoe refer to future decisions that a character makes so she doesn't mean every choice from that point on must be rational
            • Most of Kokonoe's advices tend to refer to the character as well, even if they lose the memory from the segment. As in, when advising Valkenhayn, she says "Trust your mistress". She definitely placed you, the player, to the character's shoes, rather than just directing to the player. This will tie in to the birth of Litchi's Hate Dumb. It IS rational to eventually avoid her slow, inevitable death, but is it rational to betray friends for that? I'd like to know if the haters actually had a point that she was being irrational afterwards.
  • Why do people think that Amaterasu was destroyed at the end of CS? It's explicitly stated that it's located deep within the Boundary and has the power of a god, which was why Terumi needed Kusanagi to destroy it. Not to mention, Saya's line, "I have brought the Master Unit to ruin," doesn't necessarily mean that Amaterasu was destroyed, but rather more likely means that its options are now more limited since she controls Takamagahara.
  • So most of the Characters have Nox Nyctores, but Tsubaki is only in possesion of an Ars Armagus. Now, while Terumi giving her a weaker weapon than the people she was supposed to hunt hardly shocks me, my point is, how is she expected to kill these two when she does not have anywhere near as much power. Did she even stand a chance?
    • Considering the Heroic RROD for its continuous use and how much this particular Ars Armagus is treasured by the Yayoi Family, so far one can only assume the Izayoi has equiparable power to some Nox Nyctores, it might even be the most powerful Ars Armagus around.
    • The end of her arcade mode has Hazama expressing that he actually expected her to fail, using her fight with Noel as a catalyst to make it easier to Mind Rape her into Mu-12.
      • Nox Nyctores are powerful Armagus, but not on a different scale, the distinction is actually that all Nox Nyctores are 'Causality Weapons', able to change probability. Considering that Taokaka fights at a similar level to the rest of the cast without an Armagus or similar tool at all, to say Tsubaki stands no chance because of a difference in type of weapon is overly simplified.
  • Is Teach Me, Miss Litchi! <Reloaded> supposed to be taken partially seriously or not? The orginal Teach Me, Miss Litchi! was very assertive in stating that no events and characterization should be taken into account for the canon storyline, that's okay as nothing new is given in these hilarious segments, but then the sequel came and is surprisingly insightful about background information that is barely mentioned in the main story, such as How the Vigilantes Work, The Duodecin and The Nox Nyctores; the Noxes part is even more impressive as it gives completely new information that is not mentioned in main story at all: Bang's Phoenix and (Something)Rettenjou ability to destroy other Noxes, the main storyline only went as far as to say it can sever connections with The Boundary.
    • The basic rule for those segments seems to be that if it's said in front of a chalkboard and it isn't directly about anyone in the room, it's true.
  • So how does Bang use Furinkazan if he hasn't activated his Nox yet? It seems to be a unique ability, and while he's still weaker than, well, everyone (for now), he seems to be the only character capable of some kind of superhuman feat without the aid of a Nox or an Armagus.
    • He's a mash up of many hotblooded characters, be they from Mecha driven shows, Tokusatsu in general or the average Super Ninja presented in anime and manga medium. With that said, many other fictional Ninjas such as Bang are able to perform magical techniques or extreme showcases of superhuman strength by just training really hard, his Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan art is no different than many other super secret forbidden arts available for other super ninjas. Also you seem do forget that Bang possibly has fire-breathing techniques too - as seen in one of CT's Joke Endings - making the Fu-Rin-Ka-Zan not that special in comparison. Conclusion: fictional Super Ninjas + Hard Work = being able to do almost anything.
      • Ah, but that is my point. It's been stated that most magic is done through either a nox, or an Armagus, and that only few characters have real magic. Now we have a character, besides Rachel, Nine, and Phantom (who may be Nine) who can use what is a magical ability. More evidence that the Joke character has always been much more dangerous than anyone who gave him credit. Ninpou (ninja magic) is still magic.
      • In all fairness, the characters who have stated the possible source and use of magic in the world are the ones whose knowledge comes from the NOL teachings and information databases so it's possible there are other sources of magic power out there - reinforced by how Nine and Platinum were proficient witches even before the Noxes and Armagus existed - therefore until is outright explained why Bang can perform techniques that can only be seen as geared by magic, there are only two possible explanations: 1) He can do all that by sheer hard work and training. 2) The Ikaruga Federation has their own methods of infusing magic power into their warriors.
      • And with the second one, we have a possible reason for why Ikaruga was destroyed. Can't have other people with Magic now, can we? I'm starting to think that Bang isn't the Ensemble Darkhorse we all thought he was. He may have always been meant to be far more important than he looked. He just had the good luck of being popular as well. What better way to hide a possible key player than under the guise of a Joke Character.
    • Ninjitsu exists in real life. It's just more about illusions and sleights, like modern "magic." Perhaps Bang's supposed magic abilities are actually just very well-done Badass Normal techniques?
  • ... So why is everyone still thinking Ragna is out to free the world from the clutches of the oppressive NOL? He's a good guy, but his reasoning of destroying NOL wasn't because "NOL, you dare oppress the innocents! I will protect them!" but "NOL, you pissed me off! Get destroyed!". He's not really a Robin Hood-esque guy who fights for the weak, but solely for himself. His claim of trying to take down NOL wasn't born out of the will to protect people, but more of a Badass Boast... closer to Chaotic Neutral than Chaotic Good.
    • Mind sharing with us who exactly this everyone is? Not once has this troper thought Ragna was in a quest to save the world from the seemly oppressive force of the NOL, are you sure this isn't a case of Misaimed Fandom instead? Though the fact that Ragna is obviously following his own agenda and pretty much kills any in his path is a case of All There in the Manual. Still he is The Protagonist, while not The Hero per se, Ragna is the focus of everything, so it's obvious some Fanon will portray him as a hero. Also his Pet the Dog and Cuteness Proximity moments boosts his popularity and the false of sense of Big Good quite a notch. Finally Ragna is a White-Haired Pretty Boy, one of the most gullible targets of Misaimed Fandom ever, keep that in mind.
    • It's mostly here on TV Tropes, especially in the earlier stages of CT. A lot of YMMV stuffs put Ragna as a Robin Hood-esque hero, Chaotic Good, fight to free the world from NOL oppression...and hell, NOL itself is viewed as a Palpatine-level Empire due to its 'oppression' (with or without Ragna). A lot of people never bothered to fix those so it's like TV Tropes accept that Ragna is like Robin Hood, not a Lighter and Softer version of Kratos. Although doing that may risk of putting tons of Leather Pants on Hazama/Terumi. Regardless, even if Ragna is brutal, he will always be the Face and anyone dare oppose him (especially NOL) will be considered Heel... but is it really true?
      • In the collected materials, Ragna destroys NOL facilities not because of any heroic ideal, but neither is it solely based on revenge. Jubei explained that the NOL possess cauldrons and explains to young Ragna that it could create a new Black Beast. Additionally, if you knew that some military higher-ups were responsible for the kidnapping of your family, destruction of your home and murder of your only parent figure, you'd want some answers too. Besides, everyone in the world kinda views the NOL through jade tinted glasses, but they're a group that offers safety and stability... Despite the fact their Imperator and her two right hands are the pinnacle of evil.
      • Not sure about putting Saya as the pinnacle of evil since her turn to evil was really, really vague. The only pinnacles of evil thus far are Hazama and Relius.
  • .... So, why is it that besides of having Hazama, Relius and a possibly manipulated Imperator, everyone here seems to deem NOL on the whole as a tyrannical, irredeemable Empire? Let's remember that aside of those three (and Phantom), most of them were random Joes who were minding their own business, and could very well be likable if you get to know them. And while they did step outta line a bit with "Anyone in possession of Ars Magus without permission will be executed", can anyone imagine what would happen if the wrong people gained access to the Ars Magus? Are they the tyrannical dictatorship Empire with no good intentions and only wants to rule the world, or are they trying to keeping it safe? (Of course, the manipulations are inexcusable, but it's not their fault...)
    • As with many stories that mostly offer only one perspective, we are rarely shown, if at all, the day-to-day lives of the average Joes working in the organization. You're definitely right about a lot of them potentially being good folks, but since we never really get conclusive evidence for it, and since it is uncertain that they know what their Imperator and her attack dogs are up to, not to mention the fact that we are supposed to sympathize with those who are fighting the NOL, it's easier to consider the whole thing a tyrannical empire, despite the fact that they are probably keeping the world in check. It's the same way Afro can be considered a Villain Protagonist: we see his backstory and get some sympathy for him, while his enemies, who are searching for the headbands and probably have suffered as much, if not worse, never have theirs explored.
    • Look no further than Noel in CT for a good example. She's with NOL, yet her academy days weren't filled with lots of NOL staff being assholes but as someone in for their paycheck only or due to familial stuff (Tsubaki and Makoto also count). One or two Complete Monster does not define the whole organization. Also, does that mean that Kokonoe, who is ready to nuke and level down a whole city just to get her revenge, is sympathetic because the target of her revenge is one of those Complete Monster and the casualties caused by them are to be excused to be 'sacrificed For Great Justice'? And does that mean, for instance, Litchi, who is in NOL solely for the cure of Arakune rather than agreeing to their dictatorship rule, INSTANTLY become less sympathetic than Kokonoe despite not really having destructive tendencies... SOLELY because she's IN NOL? Is that what was meant with we are supposed to sympathize with those who are fighting the NOL, it's easier to consider the whole thing a tyrannical empire?
    • Well, that's fair. I admit that was a generalization, but those points you made were definitely not the ones I meant. I think the problem lies in the fact that the medium is a video game. Particularly, it's a fighting game. I'll be the first to admit that I'm probably wrong on this, but I think you rarely get a lot of people playing games of this type for the story. Generally, it's about the moves, combos, character rosters, etc. And even if you get over that and the players start caring about the characters and their stories, you can run into bias problems that tend to result from playing as these characters through their story modes. Imagine if there were more characters available like Tsubaki and Noel, who were in the NOL from the get-go but didn't have any real intentions of harming innocent people (I'm not so certain whether Makoto counts as well, since she was a double-agent for Sector Seven, but then again, she's probably not aware of the dirty laundry there). When you follow a particular character's story, especially in video games where things are interactive, you are expected to grow with them and feel for them. That makes it difficult to step back and observe the characters and story from an objective point of view. I will admit again that I might be wrong and I'm missing something, so feel free to disagree.
    • The thing is, BlazBlue fandom has a tendency to exaggerate lots of things, NOL's 'Empire'-ness is one of them (last time, Jin's Jerkassery was dialled Up to Eleven despite some soft spots of his in the past). And it has overarched in TV Tropes, it was painful to read. I may even make some Analysis that bust out these myths. Playability does not really count. Kokonoe and Jubei enjoy MASSIVE popularity even when they're not playable. Hell, I think people try to defend Kokonoe more than, say, Litchi, because at least she's a good guy fighting the Complete Monster rather than someone who supports the Complete Monster despite not really agreeing to his principals. This 'Empire-ness' of NOL has caused the definition of Heel Face Turn and Face Heel Turn to be twisted, especially the latter. Did Litchi REALLY do a Face Heel Turn solely for joining NOL, even if her principal of saving people hasn't changed? Did Tsubaki sticking with NOL counts as a Face Heel Turn, despite, you know, being raised from age zero to serve NOL, not to mention some Mind Rape by said Complete Monster? They really haven't crossed the Moral Event Horizon or admited that Evil Feels Good, so why are they Heels for being with NOL? This gets so silly that it's as if the motto of BlazBlue alignment is: "Are you with NOL/Hazama/Relius? If yes, then you're a Heel. Boo!"
    • Hmm...come to think of it, was there ever a moment in someone's story where someone reminded them that the NOL, despite Ikaruga and perhaps some too-strict practices, is still keeping the peace? Or that there's a good chance that most of the PunchClockVillains out there probably don't know what's really going on? I will agree, there seems to be a lack of a middleground for who're the good and bad guys. And I will admit, playability can't account for everything, given that you're right about Kokonoe and Jubei being popular yet non-playable, but it's still something of a factor. I'm starting to wonder what people's views would have been had most of the cast not been trolled. Would things be less hyperboled? Would things seem less personal?
    • There's never been a case that showed that NOL directly triggered Ikaruga to 'rebel', it's more like Ikaruga was unsatisfied with how NOL runs things and started a rebellion on their own rather than being incited by NOL. Punch Clock Villain? Well, let's look at how Ragna usually raided NOL branches before CT: Everyone is killed, no exceptions. Even if that person was a defenseless woman, or just a man getting his paycheck, no mercy. Also let's consider who voiced their protests on NOL thus far: mostly Sector Seven, who DID oppose them in a way. Everyone was pretty much fine, if a bit annoyed, with their elitist attitude. As far as hyperbolizing, I do not think that was because of the trolling, but more like overexcited fans who like hyperboles and it seems to be in the blood of TV Tropes, thereby making BlazBlue fans look... well...foppish?
      • It is never elaborated how the Ikaruga war started, but it is implied that NOL and Ikaruga purposedly prolonged the war for their own purposes (war is a convenient cover up for gathering souls to feed the murakumos). It is implied that Jin was Kicked Upstairs to desk job because he ended the war prematurely, with minimal bloodshed on both sides to boot.
    • Gee, maybe the NOL are villainized because, oh I don't know, they committed genocide just because the "offenders" wanted independence?! How the hell could ANYONE possibly justify the atrocities of Ikaruga?
    • Like NOL is the only one doing it. Sector Seven also had a hand in its genocide and it gets away scots free? And likewise, as stated above, Ikaruga side also unnecessarily prolonged the war, so it's not like Ikaruga is 'the true side of justice, thereby anyone who oppresses them are "OMGEVIL!"'. It's just as gray as every other factions, just like in real world nations.
  • I'm a little confused about the time loops. How far does one repetition cover before things start over again? Also, is there any official age given to the characters aside from estimates? The only one I can recall off the top of my head is Noel's age.
    • 1) It covers up till the caudron activates/Ragna tries to destroy it/Nu awakens in Kagutsuchi, either one or all three at the same time. 2) None of the characters have canon ages, aside from the 5 years old Noel.
    • Ah, thanks. With regard to your first answer, though, does each repetition start with the arrival of the Black Beast in the past?
    • Pretty much, as far it is shown, Ragna is directly involved with all the three possibilities mentioned above, so he and Nu ends up forming the Black Beast in one way or another. That is what is shown to us, though; it is said that the shifts are much more complex than that, so there must be a shift where the Black Beast doesn't rise.
    • Ah, but in that case, what would happen if the Black Beast doesn't appear? How do the events play out, then? If my understanding of this is correct, there has to be some way for the Black Beast to be formed and then sent into the past at the end of each loop, right? If Ragna's obtainment of the Azure Grimoire is in the form of its remains, then how would he go about his business in those loops without the creature to die and provide him his new arm?
      • It is hinted in the material collections that Ragna and his siblings are artificial humans created from the Black Beast DNA taken from its corpse. In short, without the Black Beast, none of the three would have been born to begin with.
    • Blazblue has a Stable Time Loop going on. Ragna might have been created from the body of the Black Beast but he goes back in time to be Bloodedge and delay the Black Beast for a year. Ragna is given the sword and jacket of the original Bloodedge but then goes back in time to become Bloodedge. Mitsuyoshi takes up the name of Jubei in memory of Bloodedge calling him that, even though Bloodedge only used that name because Ragna knew the name of Jubei in the future. The Black Beast emerged from the Cauldron after going back in time and being created by the fusion of the two pieces of the Azure Grimoire made from the remains of the Black Beast. It is confusing and a large Temporal Paradox but that is how it works. As for the actual looping time from Calamity Trigger, I am pretty sure the only part actually being repeated is from when Ragna arrives at Kagutsuchi onwards. This is the only place we see with deviations, as all of the mythos and past events remain consistent. Only the time period we see is being looped. As for ages, there are some given but not many. Assuming Blazblue Wiki is getting correct information from the material collections, Tao is 14, Kokonoe is 15 (somehow, I’m still not sure how that works because I thought Nine was supposedly killed by Terumi much earlier), and Makoto is 17. The only one confirmed in game is Noel being 5 years old.
  • Platinum. Why does she exist? For me she fires seventeen alarms of anime cliches(and not in a fun way, like Taokaka, who doesn't sit on the game's plot and manages to be funny sometimes, but Platinum seems to do so, with several hints dropping of her importance), and her bratty side is insanely annoying to me. What bugs me... is there any chance of her becoming a day saving Mary Sue Sailor Moon reject? Or am i just being paranoid? Note: it's not because the character is newly introduced.
    • It seems to me she exists for the following reasons: 1) Tell Bang he has a Nox Nyctores 2) Introduce the last of the six heroes 3) Make Ragna extremely uncomfortable (Particularly in his joke ending
    • I'll expand to 2)'s side. The arcades of CS2 gives insight that Platinum hosts the soul of Trinity which was goaded to a guilt-trip by Terumi about causing Nine's death. With Trinity's appearance, there will be a chance that we'll get deeper to how Nine became Phantom in detail. Likewise, her appearance may be Jubei's plan all along to screw around with Terumi, like telling Bang's Nox. There's a theory that Platinum said that so maybe Bang stands a chance to pluck Litchi out of NOL services and in the end, hinders Terumi's plans with her. Platinum certainly isn't a Mary Sue, especially since many characters think her bratty side highly annoying as well. To be honest, Platinum looks less Sue than Noel and in no way would steal the spotlight. In other words, I'm sorry my fellow troper, but you seem paranoid. Well who am I to say when I was paranoid on Litchi being not good all along and will revel in her antagonist status.
    • Besides, one of Hakumen's arcade win quotes against Platinum in CS2 implies that Platina prefers to be "a spectator to the end." Perhaps Platina is even an Observer. In any case, if Pt T fights a truly story-changing battle in the third game, it's more likely that Luna and Sena will be overwhelmed by Platina's dormant persona for some time in a big Let's Get Dangerous moment.
  • Kushinada's Linchpin. What is it, anyway, another name for Bang's inactive Nox Nyctores, or something ELSE Bang possesses? All we really know about it, as far as I've been able to tell, is that it had something to do with Nine's father, and Relius is interested in it. I know, mysterious stuff that won't be revealed is par for the course in BB, but I'm just concerned as to what it means for Bang and his importance to the plot for the next installment...
  • Okay this is a rather weird headscratcher, but anybody wonder how Litchi could get those humongous breasts of hers? Is it...
    1. Because she's born that way?
    2. Because she's following a super tight body-building program (diet, or martial arts training included)?
    3. Because the Boundary is giving her extra cup sizes?
  • Play as Mu-12 in Arcade and get beaten by Bang... then Bang says Mu-12 has no killing intent. What the hell? Wasn't she so intent to kill everyone and destroy the world? Did Bang see what is beyond the Mu-12 veil, or he's an idiot for thinking too much at this moment?
    • Mu-12, while generated from Noel's hatred, incarnate nothingness - her goal is to destroy everything, including herself. ("If the world dies so shall I!") She doesn't have any killing intent because that would imply that she's targeting something in particular.
  • What age is Kokonoe? I heard somewhere that she is 15 but that doesn’t make sense. Maybe this is explained in the Phase Shift novels (which I have not read) but she would have to have been born before Nine was killed by Terumi. As far as I can tell that would mean she has to be at least 70 or 80. It’s confusing because she seems so much younger than that. Is this explained in the novels? Is there a plot hole? I can’t tell.
    • We don't know the specifics, but she's definitely older than 15. She even confesses as much in Makoto's Help Me!! segment.

"I'm way older than you, Makoto! As in 'If I had 'em, they'd be down to my KNEES' old!"

  • We know that each NOL personnel when fighting always have a "We are the Knight of the Blue Flame" Badass Creed. But... why doesn't Relius do that when he fights fellow NOL characters?
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